I was thinking lately about how many classic lines there are in the Star Wars Saga. When IV-VI came out, the classic lines now ingrained in pop-culture's minds were a way for fans to show they were fans. Many of I-IIIs critics lament what they call a lack of such memorable lines in I-III. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Here is a list of the lines which, I think, would be considered just as classic if not for the hatedom (and in some circles, already are).
I'm doing these all from memory, so I fully expect some things might be slightly inaccurate. But that's to prove the point, since how many of the other quotes get mangled?
* "These Federation types are cowards. The negotiations will be short."
* "Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again."
* "Roger Roger."
* "Have you ever encountered a Jedi Knight before?" "Well...no...but I don't...seal off the bridge!"
* "You were right about one thing, Master; Negotiations were short."
* "You assume too much"
* "A communications breakdown can mean only one thing - invasion"
* "I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."
* "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
* "Uh, on second tought...no, no, not really no..."
* "Tis embarrassing but...my afraid my have been banished. My forgotten...te bosses will do terrible things to me! Terrible things to me if me going back dere!"
* "Do you hear that? That is the sound of a thousand terrible things heading this way." "If they find us they will catch us, crush us into tiny bits and blast us into oblivion." "Ah...yousa point is well-seen."
* "How wude!"
* "Weesa no like da Naboo. Dey tink dey so smartay. Dey tink dey brains so big."
* "You and the Naboo form a symbiont circle. What happens to one of you will effect the other. You must understand this."
* "Hissin to be...peunished..."
* "*gargle-growl* Begone wit him!"
* "Meesa cause mebbe one or twoey little-bitty accidentes, hmm? You'd say...boom de gasser, den crashin' de boss' heyblibber, den banished."
* "There's always a bigger fish."
* "Ohh, maxibig da Force. Well dat smells stinkowith."
* "Relax, we're not in trouble yet." "WHAT YET?! Monstars out dere, leakin' in here, all sinkin' and no power? When are yousa TINKIN' weesa in trouble?!"
* "Yousa guys bombad!"
* "Your negotiations seem to have failed." "The negotiations never took place."
* "I am the ambassador to the Supreme Chancellor, and I'm taking these people to Coruscant." "Where are you taking them?" "To Coruscant." "Coruscant. Uhh...That doesn't compute. Umm....err....ahh....you're under arrest!"
* "Dis sun doin; murder to meesa skin..."
* "Ahh yes, Nubian! We got lotsa that!"
* "So... let me take thee out back, eh? We'll find what ya need, heh heh heh."
* "Are you an angel?"
* "An angel. I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe. They live on the moons of Iego...I think..."
* "I'm a person, and my name is Anakin!"
* "Hey! Hit the nose!"
* "T-14 Hyperdrive. You're in luck; I'm the only one hereabouts who has one. But...you may as well buy a new ship. It would be cheaper, I think...heh heh. Saying which, ah, hows'n you gonna pay for all this?" "I have 20,000 Republic Dactaries." "Republic Credits? Republic Credits are no good out here, I need something a little more real." "I don't have anything else, but credits will do fine." "No, they won't." "Credits will do fine." "No, they WON'T. What, you think you're some kinda Jedi waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian! Mind tricks donna work on me, only money! No money, no parts, no deal! And no one else has a T-14 hyperdrive, I promise you that."
* "No again! No again! De beings hereabouts: cawazy! Weesa be robbed un crunched!" "Not likely. We have nothing of value. That's our problem."
* "Your friend here was about to be turned into orange goo. He picked a fight with a Dug; An especially dangerous Dug called Sebulba."
* "I'm sorry, what do you mean 'naked'?" "*beedle-boop*" "MY PARTS ARE SHOWING?!"
* "I saw your laser sword. Only Jedi carry that kind of weapon." "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and took ti from him." "I don't think so. Nobody can kill a Jedi." "I wish that were so."
* "There is no other way. I may not like it, but he can help you. He was meant to help you."
* "Tatooine is sparsely populated. If the trace was correct, I shall find them quickly, Master."
* "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge."
* "I hope you didn't kill anyone I know for it."
* "The reading's off the charts! Over twenty-thousand! Even Master Yoda doesn't have a midichlorian count that high."
* "Don't getta me wrongo, I have great faith in the boy. He's a credit to your race! But...Sebulba there is going to win, I think."
* "He always wins!"
* "You may have won this small toss, outlander, but you won't win the race so it makes little difference!"
* "Hosta wohota shag, topilia noke." "Ha screwmie dopot, sleimo!" "Yoko to bantha poodoo! Hehehehe...."
* "The Queen trusts my judgement, young handmaiden. You should too."
* "Oh, and there goes Quadrinaro's power coupling!"
* "Will I ever see you again?" "What does your heart tell you?" "I guess so....yes?"
* "The Republic is not what it once was. The senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates."
* "You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force. You believe it's this...boy?"
* "Fear is a path to the dark side! Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you."
* "Yousa tinkin' yousa people gonna die?"
* "Your focus determines your reality."
* "HA! HAHAHAHahahahahaha! Yousa no tinkin' yousa greater den the Gungans? Meesa like dis! Maybe weesa...bein' friends!"
* "I'll try spinning; That's a good trick!"
* "Always two, there are. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice." "But which was destroyed, the master or the apprentice?"
* "I haven't seen you so nervous since we fell into that nest of gundarks." "You fell into that nightmare, Master. And I rescued you."
* "What took you so long?" "Well you know, Master. I couldn't find a speeder I liked. Open cockpit, the right speed capabilities..."
* "Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?"
* "I think he's a she, and I think she's a changeling."
* "Wanna buy some deathsticks?" "You don't want to sell me deathsticks." "I don't wanna sell you deathsticks..." "You want to go home and rethink your life." "I wanna go home and...rethink my life..."
* "Jedi business. Go back to your drinks."
* "I should think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and..hehe...wisdom."
* "They're cloners. Damn good ones, too."
* "Are they friendly?" "Well that depends." "Depends on what, Dex?" "On how good your manners are. And how big your...pocketbook is. Hehehe..."
* "If it's not in our records, it doesn't exist."
* "Lost a planet, Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing. How embarrassing."
* "Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is."
* "I don't like sand. It's course, and rough, and irritating...and it gets everywhere."
* "When I got to them, we got into aggressive negotiations." "'Agressive Negotiations'? What's that?" "Ah, well, it's negotiations with a lightsaber."
* "I'm just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe."
* "R4, scramble code five to Coruscant, care of the Old Folks Home."
* "You're making fun of me." "Nah, I'd be much too frightened to tease a senator."
* "He doesn't seem to take a hint, this guy."
* "Blast, this is why I hate flying!"
* "...Ani?....Little Ani? Nahhh....You are Ani, it is you! Hahaha! You sure sprouted, eh? A Jedi! Whaddaya know? Hey, maybe you can help with some deadbeats who owe me a lotta money..."
* "Life is much simpler when you're fixing things. I was always good at fixing things..."
* "I killed them...I killed them all...They're dead...Every single one of them...And not just the men, but the women and children two. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!"
* "No, this is a mistake my friend. A terrible mistake! They've gone too far this time! This is madness!"
* "It may be difficult to secure your release."
* "Senators! Dellow felagates! Meesa propose weesa grant immediately emergency powers to da Supreme Chancellor."
* "I was beginning to wonder if you got my message." "I retransmitted it to Coruscant just as you asked, Master. Then we decided to come and rescue you." ".....Good job!"
* "My legs aren't moving. I must need maintenance."
* "I was programmed for etiquette, not destruction!"
* "It seems that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force...but by our skills with a lightsaber."
* "Victory? Victory, you say? Master Obi-Wan...not victory! The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun, the Clone War has."
* "Whaat's the situation?"
* "I sense Count Dooku." "I sense a trap." "What should we do?" "Spring the trap."
* "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our speciality."
* "Ahh, the negotiator. General Kenobi. That wasn't much of a rescue. And...Anakin Skywalker. I was expecting someone of your reputation to be a little...older." "General Grievous...you're shorter than I expected."
* "You are on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of Master."
* "Good relations with the Wookiees, I have."
* "Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's an old Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a dark lord of the Sith so powerful he could influence the midichlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side...he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying."
* "How ironic...he could save others from death, but not himself..."
* "Is it possible to learn this power?" "Not from a Jedi."
* "You fool! I've been trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku!"
* "Army or not, you must realize you are doomed."
* "Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?"
* "POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!!!!"
* "Execute Order 66."
* "If you are not with me, then you are my enemy!" "Only a Sith deals in absolutes...I shall do what I must." "You will try..."
* "I have been waiting a long time for this, my little green friend..."
* "If so powerful you are, why leave?"
* "At an end, your rule is. And not short enough it was."
* "I shoudl have known the Jedi were planning to take over!" "Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!" "Well from my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" "Well then you are lost!"
* "It's over, Anakin! I have the high ground!" "You underestimate my power!" "Don't try it!"
* "You were the chosen one! It was said you'd destroy the Sith, not join them!"
* "Where is Padmé? Is she...safe? Is she...alright?" "It seems in your anger...you have killed her." "No...I couldn't have...she was alive, I felt it.........NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Yeah, no memorable lines whatsoever.
If there's one I missed that you and your friends use for subversive I-III-loving, please let me know in the comments!
I'd say NOOOOOOOOOO is memorable, but for all the wrong reasons.
ReplyDeleteSame thing with the 'only Sith deal in absolutes' line.
Love the 'aggressive negotiations', though, which one was that from?
And so is half of Cadets dialogue from IV-VI. It's cheesy, but deliciously so. Like a pizza.
ReplyDeleteAggressive Negotiations is from Clones. The exchange was Anakin telling Padme about his adventures. Later, Padme uses the term playfully during the battle of Geonosis.
Dammit, I said Vader's dialogue. Vader! not "Cadets". DAMN YOU PHOOOOOONE!!!!
DeleteAnd, honestly, while the "NOOO" is laughable out of context I admit that it moves me when I see it watching the whole movie.
DeleteNah, Vader's dialogue in IV-VI are consistent with the idea of his character and for the most part well-written (seriously, the notion that the original films have crap dialogue is a fairly foreign concept to me- it's always been one of their strengths, IMO).
DeleteThe NOOOOOOOOOOO bit wrecks with his character at that point, is a remarkably cliched line, and, as lovely and talented as the man is, James Earl Jones can't do a protracted 'no' to save his life (but then, few can).
"The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but a learner, now I am the master!"
DeleteI love that line to death but if you don't think that's another horribly cheesy and clichéd line, I've got a bridge to sell you.
And how does it wreck his character? It's perfectly consistant with what we've seen of Anakin up to that point and while he's colder as Vader from that point until near the end of "Jedi", he's CERTAINLY not immune to Ani's dramatics.
See also "There'll be no one to stop us this time!"
DeleteWhat's wrong with the circle line? And how is it cliched? Can you name me a film from before Star Wars that has a similar line? "no one to stop us" is a cliche, I'll grant you that, but comes at the end of an expository monologue and doesn't wrap up an emotional climax.
DeleteWith Vader, it's important to understand that the mask is a symbol, and one that represents a good number of thing within the films. Vader is very much an archetype that resembles the calculated evil he's become (and even within the prequels, he's lost the emotional side of him once he's killed the children, anything else is backtracking the character), and thus he's meant to act in a certain way within that suit. It's telling that his only emotional moment in the original trilogy is without the mask, symbolizing a return to his more human element.
So the NOOOO line doesn't work because the suit marks a transition for the character, and the line itself marks a regression. If anything, they should've placed the line while he was on the operating table, screaming in agony when he's told about the news. That way the operation acts as a catharsis, is completely in character for the human side of Anakin, and also allows a complete transition from his human side to his mechanical side, symbolized by the transition into the now-iconic suit.
It's comic-book villain dialogue, pure and simple. Again, there's nothing wrong with that, but it ain't Shakespeare. Maybe high school Shakespeare...but still.
DeleteAnd the point is that there's still that good in him. Padme senses it even as she's dying. Luke senses it and tries to exploit it. Even though Anakin is too far gone to feel like he can stop himself, there's still the part of him that's remorseful. It's why he cries on Mustafar after slaughtering the Separatist leaders. It's why he lets out that scream in the suit. It's why he sounds genuinely sad when he tells his son "it's too late for me."
Again, though, how? It's easy to say "cheesy" and "comic-book dialogue", but what exactly characterizes it as that, and how often has it used that it becomes 'cliched' in Star Wars?
DeleteAnd with Anakin, the suit nonetheless marks a definite transition for his character, and has to be written in a certain way to reflect that. He still has good in him, but it expresses itself in a much subtler and subdued way (as helped by the faceless nature of the mask, and the low timber of James Earl Jones' voice). So aside from the fact that Jones just isn't good at the screamy emotional NOOOOO, it's not fitting with how Vader's character has been written and developed up to that point (I'm talking within the suit, not as Anakin).
I think the problem is that people still cling to the image of Vader from New Hope as some sort of ultimate villain when that's not what he is. Every film since has added to his characterization and fundamentally changed what his character represents. As the Saga stands, Anakin/Vader is a thoroughly broken and pathetic man. Not many people seem to be able to accept his character evolution. I think that's why they had trouble accepting Anakin. A lot of people were expecting obvious evil (or, conversely, a saint) and they didn't realize that's not how it works.
DeleteAll I'm saying about the dialogue is that it's over-the-top and melodramatic. The kind of dialogue that I-III detractors pick on. Again, I have absolutely no problem with it. I love it. It's one of the Saga's selling points for me and many other fans. But out of context or with an overly-critical mind it's really freaking silly, just like nearly every other line in all six movies.
You're right about his character continually changing (I mean, in the context of the original film he's just a grunt to Tarkin), but there's still a base level of consistency to his character in the three films that remains the same even as he's humanized and developed.
DeleteI actually don't have any problem with Anakin being as emotional or flawed as he is in the prequels (I do think it could've been executed better, but the base idea is a sound one), but that part of the character isn't something that should transition into the suit itself. Like I've said before, it marks a definite transition for the character and necessitates being written in a certain way, otherwise the dialogue jars.
And over-the-top and melodramatic aren't bad things at all (especially given the film's original inspiration), but that's usually not what detractors pick on in the prequels (usually it's a matter of the dialogue not being particularly well-written, and the actors/direction not being strong enough to overcome that).
But the lines are just as unwieldy. As for the performances, they're the same caliber as far as the Skywalkers are concerned. Harrison Ford is only slightly better and only because he can pull off a good ad lib once in a while, and Ewan McGregor gets by on his natural charm. Again, I love all of them, but they're consistent.
DeleteYou're not giving some of the actors nearly enough credit (Hamill and Ford especially are really great, as is McGregor, all three of whom give great performances in the films). And the direction takes a noticeable downturn in the prequels as well, with the acting suffering as a result of it (Christiansen and Portman are really great actors, but both suffer in the prequels, mostly due to the direction).
DeleteI think they're all enjoyable actors and play their parts fairly well in the Saga. But having studied acting I can recognize that it's not likely to win any awards. There's nothing wrong with that, since that's the kind of saga Star Wars is. But if one is going to pick on Natalie, Ewan, and especially Hayden, then the rose-colored glasses need to come off in regards to Carrie, Harrison, and especially Mark. Personally, much as I love them all, I'll take Hayden's Anakin over Mark's Luke any day.
DeleteBut, again, this whole campaign is about recognizing most of these criticisms come down completely to subjective tastes. Objectively, there's very little difference if any in the quality of the various technical issues. What matters is simply whether or not you think cheesy melodrama is totally awesome. I do.
As with all art, though, there are objective factors to measure the different elements of film so it doesn't come down to pure subjective taste.
DeleteAs for the acting, having just rewatched Empire Strikes Back, the acting is uniformly excellent with the leads, so I honestly do not see where you're coming from- particularly when you say you prefer Christiansen in the prequels to Hamill in the originals (and I don't even dislike Christiansen as an actor- it's purely the way his character comes off in the films). Hamill is extremely good in the part, and while he has the most weak moments of all the lead actors, he still delivers the key scenes perfectly (his performance does improve visibly as the saga goes on, with Return being his best performance by a long shot).
Also- you're sometimes arguing from a false premise that assumes everyone who attacks the prequels either grew up on the original trilogy (which is why they hate the prequels), or is in some way letting nostalgia affect their view of the original films. This might be true for some people, but it's hardly true for everyone, and it's reductive and a bit insulting to think that way.
DeleteFor my own part, I grew up with the prequels- Phantom Menace was the first SW film I saw in theatres, and remained my favorite until Attack of the Clones. It wasn't until much later that I began to see them in a much different light, so arguing that my opinion is somehow tainted by nostalgia is, put simply, wrong.
1. But that's all your opinion that the acting is "uniformly good". Actually, when it comes to Empire, I happen to think Han and Leia fall flat far more often than Luke, and my comment about preferring Hayden to Mark is an overall thing. Again, I have to qualify that I love everyones performances in all the movies even if they fall flat once in a while. And I don't necessarily think anyone falls flat nearly as much as people say they do and certainly no more than each other (except maybe Jake Lloyd, and even he does some good stuff he doesn't get credit for). But whenever people complain why I-III actor does [blank], I see IV-VI actors doing the same [blank]. It's a vicious double-standard, and I hate double-standards. And what does it stem from?
Delete2. While not every I-III basher is an oldie, the most vehement and emotionally charged began there, and everyone else jumped on the bandwagon in order to appear "smart" and/or "cool". I almost fell for it too. For years I had to "admit" that they "weren't as good", even though I kind of liked them. It wasn't until the last three years or so, when I sat down to show the Saga to my now-wife for the first time, that I realized that no, time out, these are all awesome, and they're all flawed in the same way, and people are mainly being snobs and don't really know what they're talking about. Once I came back from the dark side, that's when I discovered the depth of I-III, and how much the complaints against them had in fact been the complaints of Star Wars since 1977. And I only believe art has objective qualifiers if the artist is going for something specific and fails. And even then, it can be enjoyed on its own merits subjectively.
The thing is, though, that your argument often boils down to "the old films are just as bad", which not only fails to defend the prequels themselves, but also wants the arguer to admit that, instead of three (or two) of the films being really good, they're all really just flawed and bad in the same way. Given the choice between the two of them, I'd much rather take the choice that allows me to think at least two of the films are really great.
DeleteAnd art has objective qualifiers regardless of the author's intentions (though intentions do help to improve a film's objective worth (Gus Van Sant's remake of Psycho is a good example)). Extensive scholarly theories on film and techniques exist (as do ones on music, acting, etc.), and so there are ways of measuring how a film succeeds in various aspects, on a purely objective level. Even when discussing opinions, one has to support and qualify those opinions with evidence and reason (otherwise there's no real point to discussion since it could basically stop at "well, that's my opinion" and go no further).
To provide an example- I've said several times that Kirshner's direction for Empire Strikes Back is miles above the direction in the prequels. To best look at this, compare the simple dialogue scenes in Empire with something like Revenge of the Sith.
DeleteIn Revenge of the Sith, all of the scenes are shot in a very standard filming technique called "Shot-reverse-shot", in which there are two cameras placed on each of the conversing actors, the scene is filmed in one take, and then edited to cut between the two actors (It's a trope, apparently- http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShotReverseShot). The blocking for each dialogue scene is also near identical- usually two or three characters are walking down a hallway, or walking in a room, or sitting at a table, or sitting at a couch, etc. When the conversation reaches a climax, the characters will slow to a stop, and one might look out a window. Then they'll resume walking.
This in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but virtually every dialogue scene in Revenge is shot in this manner, with no attempt at visual distinction beyond the very basic setting- and even the setting doesn't mean anything on a deeper level. The blocking, editing, and cinematography does nothing to develop the meaning of the scene going on- it's just very standard and routine.
Compare this to Empire, where only one scene is done in a shot-reverse-shot (between Han, Luke, and Leia early on), and the others are all shot in different ways. Not only does this give the film variety and make it feel livelier and more creative, the scenes are also shot in a way to further develop what's on the screen- take the way in which Vader's healing pod is used in two simple expository scenes to comment on his separation from others, and how his mechanical side has overtaken his human side. Or how the use of fog in the final lightsaber battle is a visual metaphor for ambiguity and masked intentions (visually foreshadowing the revelation at the end).
There's life and variety in Empire's direction that there isn't in the prequels, which is why I say it's objectively better on that level.
I mentioned before what I think of film school. I'be used evidence and reason and have been shot down because they can't accept opposing viewpoints.
DeleteMy argument isn't that any Star Wars film is bad. By showing that IV-VI have the same flaws, I'm trying to get people to realize they're being pig-headed elitist jerks and have them think "hmm, if I can largely ignore the flaws of IV-VI and enjoy it for all it does so right, maybe I can do the same with I-III."
And what are you smoking? Empire has PLENTY of shot-reverse-shots. And I-III have PLENTY of life in the staging of its scenes.
DeleteAllright, give examples.
DeleteWell, not being able to actually watch any of them this second and going strictly from memory, Bespin and Dagobah have many conversations with the shot you said they didn't have. As for I-III, off the top of my head any space battle and lightsaber duel have amazing angles and viewpoints, especially in III.
DeleteI said dialogue scenes, not action scenes- they're extremely well-shot, absolutely. But the dialogue scenes (which should be the more crucial to the film, especially as it's supposed to be character-driven) are all shot in the same manner, with extremely similar blocking.
DeleteAnd having recently watched Empire, I think you're mistaken about Bespin and Dagobah- there's maybe one scene in Dagobah I could see terming 'shot-reverse-shot', but the rest are varied in their blocking, filming, and editing (blocking is key here in identifying varied shots- the blocking in ROTS is almost uniform in its nature).
You said direction overall.
DeleteBut okay, let's talk dialogue. Sith had plenty of walk-and-talk scenes as did Empire in Bespin. On the other hand, Sith did some varied angles during the opera. scene (The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis) and not just shot-reverse-shot. There's also the scene of Han and Leia in Bespin that employed shot-reverse-shot in addition to some other angles.
"compare the simple dialogue scenes in Empire with something like Revenge of the Sith".
DeleteAnd you're misunderstanding my argument- I'm not saying shot-reverse-shot is a necessarily bad technique (though it's usually a weak one), just that the over-reliance on it creates a dry and un-involving film. One or two examples on either end doesn't change the fact that the prequels have a huge reliance on shot-reverse-shot that the original films don't.
Though I'm not convinced all your examples qualify as straight shot-reverse-shot, either- the Bespin scenes are varied in their blocking and editing, and the specific 'walk-and-talk' scene I think you're referring to uses a markedly different editing pace than the examples of it in the prequels (plus wildly different blocking- we're talking idle strolling vs. taking characters from one locale to the another).
I think it all works. Lucas may like the technique more than Kirsh, but to say that one does it all the time and the other never does is a misleading oversimplification and plain not true. And any argument that says any of the films are inherently "uninvolving" in any way is proven false by the simple fact that I was certainly involved and I'm far from the only one.
DeleteI just said in my comment that it wasn't split like that- just that the prequels have an over-reliance on the technique. Again, almost every dialogue scene in the prequels is shot, edited, and blocked in the same way. There's no thought or care given as to how to visually carry the scene in a certain way, or how to let the blocking, editing, or setting communicate ideas and intents about the characters, emotions, etc. in any way.
DeleteThis is something that simply isn't true in the original films, which, while they do use the technique from time to time, don't put a reliance on it and make it the default mode of filming. There's a visual interest in the films and how the visuals develop the story that there just isn't in the prequels (and I could give examples, and have given examples, that showcase this).
Um yes, there's a lot of thought and care going into I-III. It's there if you look at it. Visuals do develop the story, sometimes even more than the dialogue.
DeleteYou are underrating I-III by overrating IV-VI. What we should be doing, what people who actually like Star Wars should be doing is just enjoying Star Wars as the whole. Love it for what it is and not for what we may want it to be.
Okay, then explain to me the thought and care that goes into the dialogue scenes in Ep. I-III- specifically related to the visual techniques (blocking, editing, cinematography, etc.).
DeleteI could. I could go movie by movie. Not just I-III, but IV-VI as well. Describe how every scene is blocked, describe every tableau that is made.
DeleteBut I won't. It would be a waste of my time. Not because it's not there (it is), not because I think you may be right (I don't), and not because I'm lazy (I'm not).
Simply put, it doesn't matter. The mere fact that you bring up such a ubiquitous technique as a negative and don't even see when the movie you like does it tells me that it would be useless. I think the films speak for themselves. They have great cinematography across the board. If you really care about that stuff, find it yourself.
I don't care. I don't care what techniques are used. Whatever they did, it worked to make some wonderful and engaging movies with memorable characters and an epic story, with amazing effects for the times they were made. If you're the kind of person where your enjoyment of a film and criteria for it being good rests solely on how many times the camera focuses on a talking actor, then you've grossly missed the point of film in general. It's the elitist film school arguments by wanting to sound smarter and in the know, but all you're proving is that you can't see the forest for the trees.
You grab I-III, you pause every frame, and you find the meaning and the tableau. I don't need to in order to enjoy it.
Good direction *does matter* to a film though, which is entirely centered around its visual quality. An excessive reliance on a routine method of filming is poor direction (and again, I never said that the older films never used it, just that they don't rely on it as heavily).
DeleteYou might not care, but this is real and important stuff to the method of film-making- making the film's visuals important to the characters, emotions, and story is almost entirely what film is for (the whole history of film lends to that- early films didn't have story to rely on, so the visuals had to carry the film). I'm not criticizing the film simply for using shot-reverse-shot, I'm criticizing it because it chooses to film a large number of scenes in the exact same manner, with very similar blocking and editing, that don't help to visually carry the scenes (the greatest test to this- if you muted all of the films, would they still be interesting to watch from a visual standpoint?). It's not simply the techniques used, it's that the techniques don't enhance the scene and add to it on a visual level.
I feel I-III, muted would be just as interesting if not more than IV-VI muted. Though I get the feeling you'd argue it would be for different reasons.
DeleteStill, it's not necessarily a litmus test since anything can be greater than the sum of its parts. And I could find a similar way all six are shot. It resonates to me all the same.
And I would argue that the direction is what should pull those parts together- so when it falls flat, the rest begin to fall as well. This is why I think people tend to pick on stuff like the acting and scripts that, some would argue, aren't much worse than what was already given (I have my doubts there, but I can see the argument even if I don't agree with it). Personally, I do feel the direction is what lets down the prequels for me, and what keeps me from appreciating them more (though I've always liked Phantom Menace, its sense of fun is able to carry it out of its more troublesome parts).
DeleteThat's fair. Though there's a lot more going on in all three than they're given credit for. Seriously, though, check out some of the links. They explain better than I ever could (I don't know if you've noticed, but I can be slightly absent-minded).
DeleteWow, sorry to butt in on what's obviously a 2 person conversation but this is directed @Nilbog, I think you should stop replying to Flynn any further because I think he's just trolling you at this point. You've been presenting rather cogent points that he doesn't seem to be addressing and instead he replies by throwing up tangential points as a distraction. What I find amusing is he keeps moving the debate's field goals on you.
DeleteFor example, he says the prequels can be objectively evaluated as worse than the originals because art can be "objectively evaluated" without even providing proof for how this opinion could possibly be true, as if simply stating this opinion as fact was enough to refute your point that art is subjective. Then he goes on to state that "Kirshner's direction for Empire Strikes Back is miles above the direction in the prequels" before going ahead with arguing that the blocking for the dialogue scenes in RotS were identical and not varied like with ESB. (This actually shows ignorance of what the purpose of the scene is since this argument implies having varied shots is always better than static shots when the purpose of the shot needs to be evaluated. Having dialogue shot with a standard composition can be equivalent to writers using "said" for conversations in prose, as it's unobtrusive to readers versus using more exotic words and thus avoids distracting from the dialogue. It is convention audiences expect and easily understand versus using something more experimental that distracts audiences from getting the information they need from the dialogue.) He also goes on to give another opinion as a statement of fact, claiming that dialogue scenes are especially important when a film's character driven. (This is ignoring character moments that can be established without dialogue like in Castaway where the first hour was Tom Hanks with a volleyball. Or to cite Star Wars examples, Padme crying on the ship while she's flying to Mustafar, the entire Darth Vader transformation sequence, or Luke Skywalker looking at the twin suns of Tatooine.) When you bring up that he is overgeneralizing as both Lucas and Kirshner use the Shot Reverse Shot technique, he changes tactics and tries to argue that "overuse" of the technique makes the film "uninvolving." You countered with the fact that you were involved, thus proving art is subjective, but he ignores this and tries to again argue that "there's a visual interest" in the originals that the prequels don't have.
DeleteAlthough he states that he can and has given examples for how there's more "visual interest" in the originals, he doesn't provide them. (I think this is a fallacious argument as he disregards the settings in his argument against the prequels' use of shot reverse shot for dialogue scenes despite the fact that the settings are visual and also disregards the reason or purpose behind the directions of the films. I personally found the prequels' sleek veneer to be a purposeful metaphor for how everything in the failing Republic had a beautiful facade.) When you argue that there is thought in the visuals of the prequels, he instead demands that you delineate exactly the visual techniques used in the prequels, which you refuse (rightfully, in my opinion because it encourages his nitpicking and doesn't challenge the basis of his nitpicking, the assumption that art can be evaluated objectively). Again, refusing to address the points you bring up that film technique is ultimately subservient to the story told (at least in Star Wars' case since in some arty films, film technique really can be all they are). Then he continues yammering about how good direction and visuals are what make the film's story good, again ignoring your point that going frame by frame to nitpick what technique is used or not used defeats the purpose. Again, he doesn't even address the logical flaw in his arguments since he is trying to judge the prequels' direction by the originals and neglecting to address the purpose of the direction.
So, in summary, I'm not sure he's actually having a conversation with you. He's just using your blog as a place to air out HIS opinions, HIS conclusions, and HIS dogma. Your responses are simply a way for him to continue to talk AT you and not to you. However, to add to the "discussion" about the direction in the prequels, I found them to be simply set up in order to cut down on the visual distraction and allow for the audience to better immerse themselves in the setting and what's actually happening on the screen, as the worlds presented in the prequels are much richer and busier than in the originals. By contrast, Episodes IV-VI were in worlds that were more restrained and deserted with less going on visually, fitting the black and white tones of the story whereas the prequels were all about shades of gray before plunging into the dark. Also, sometimes simple is better in terms of direction-- I found it very powerful to see the shot and reverse shot in the Jedi Temple scene where the youngling approaches Vader for help, then it cuts to Vader, before cutting back to the youngling and the lightsaber turning on. You don't need to ornament that scene with anything else.
DeleteThanks for this. I agree with everything you said i.e. the films and the flimsy argument (to which I'm constantly making the ragecomic face of the guy who can't believe what he's hearing).
DeleteHowever, I like to give his intentions the benefit of the doubt, since he's friendly enough on non-SW posts and I welcome friendly debate. Plus, I can't always argue my point well on the fly (so please feel free to step in anytime I'm floundering).
Actually, the fact that he's even bringing up "film technique" and direction on a post talking about dialogue from the prequels is a bit troll-like too. But I must admit he is more civil than most prequel bashers. At least it hasn't degenerated into name calling as of yet.
DeleteReturning to the direction of the films though, I really can't say that you can objectively rate the direction of a film as if you can give a score. You can gain an average or a mean based on a consensus of a pool of opinions like with Metacritic but you will always have outliers to the data, which is why you have people who love the campy fun of B-movies or cult classics but they are not to the taste of mainstream audiences or people who hate something that gets rave reviews from everyone else. Since art isn't a democracy or about tyranny of the majority, this is why it's usually stated that art is subjective. I really don't understand where his position that art can be objectively evaluated comes from.
Also, the direction of a film is such an amalgamation of different things, not just film technique and cinematography which he seems to fixate on, that it's even more impossible to evaluate objectively. Even taking the Empire Strikes Back, which he seems to hold as the ultimate example of how the Star Wars films are, you could argue that it can't all be attributed to Kirshner. Kirshner definitely was responsible for the on-set coaching of the actors and he was also likely influential working with the cinematographer on how shots were composed but there is a reason why ESB is still another Star Wars film and that's the clue that holds things together: George Lucas.
It seems that in his arguments, he's trying to imply George Lucas was simply an idea man and Kirshner can be attributed for why the visuals of that film was a success in his eyes but that denotes a pick and match mentality that is reflective of the entire vein of his comments here. OPINION IS NOT FACT. Assumptions based on fact are not necessarily fact. I'm pretty sure on ESB that Lucas still pulled a lot of weight on the art direction despite handing over director duties to Kirshner. Even retaining the power to say no is a great deal of creative influence on the film and I doubt Lucas simply said no on the visuals for ESB. Really, given his insistence that you delve into minutiae for him to prove his argument, which I view as intellectual laziness on his part since he's coming here to your blog and trying to start a debate with less than adequate skills in logic or reason, he really should be providing a shot by shot analysis for why he keeps bringing up ESB instead of insisting that you provide one for the prequels.
Finally, I just wanted to add to the prequel dialogue discussion. The lines that Yoda speaks to a young Anakin Skywalker that sums up the cycle of the Dark Side is so classic and so often quoted that I think most prequel-bashers forget that they ARE from the prequels. You can't really pick and choose from the prequels if you really believe in all the hyperbolic insults that they "raped your childhood," which is another problematic overreaction from prequel-bashers because it feeds into the misogynistic vein of geek culture and is completely contrary to the spirit of the Jedi philosophy. Actually, ALL of these negative emotions that prequel-bashing creates is of the Dark Side because it unhealthily encourages obsession and hate while trying to spread it to others.
I couldn't agree more. That's why I never went back to school to become a director or even a film professor. I just can't abide that snobbish attitude to film criticism. There are things I don't like, and even for reasons that may speak to a work's overall quality, but I would never discourage people from finding value in it, as long as they aren't hurting anyone.
DeleteAdditional thoughts I have on the dialogue in Attack of the Clones, more specifically in the love story portion, that most people attack:
DeleteI think the dialogue is actually realistic. The corniness and cheesiness of the lines Anakin spouts are believable to me because he's going through adolescent LOVE and he's finally talking to the woman he's dreamed about for years and he's never been in this situation or even been remotely prepared for it. Yes, he acts younger than his age-- why wouldn't he? Grown men falling in love and fumbling around till they look like teenagers-- some even act like boys on a playground punching a girl before running away--is actually par for the course. For those who argue that the Jedi Order's condonement of casual sex but not romance means Anakin should have had some exposure to women, I don't believe that means a thing. With all the criticism Anakin has received of his "attachments" issue, do you really see him accepting an arrangement of emotionless sex? The confession scene where he is more Shakespearean in comparison to his "sand" lines is actually more heartbreaking because of it. I can imagine he actually rehearsed his confession first, writing them out like a love letter, before blurting them all out to her. His timing was horrible, his embarrassment is palpable, and his inability to control feeling what he feels is obvious. Also, even Padme is prone to spouting off cheesy lines but I like that. Because despite her reputation for eloquence in political speeches, she is NOT a romantic expert. They are both fumbling teenagers with each other and thus equal in the arena of love.
For the balcony scene on Revenge of the Sith, I also thought the dialogue served its purpose. I think people forget about the times when they've been around lovey-dovey couples while still single. Didn't you roll your eyes at some of the stupid and inane BS they would spout to each other? The scene actually leads off with a great bit of non-verbal acting from Hayden Christensen because you can tell he's just appreciating the moment of looking at his pregnant wife brushing her air whom he's just returned home to after the soul-crushing experiences of war. Padme's plans for their baby are such good lines because they all embody what prequel fans wish for them-- for them all to be a happy family despite knowing that they are doomed by Episodes IV-VI to not be able to have that fate. When Anakin says anything, it seems like he's so overwhelmed by Padme he just blurts out the first thing that comes to mind. (Do you really expect for him to come off like a Don Juan even after 3 years of marriage?) When Padme responds by teasing him, he joins in. Looking into this window on their marriage, you cringe because it's such sappy stuff but really, what did you expect? She just told him, her husband that she thought was dead but came back alive, that she's pregnant. He has reassured her he's happy and despite whatever misgivings about the pregnancy's consequences, the continuing costs of war, and the repercussions of the Republic's failings, they are both here in this moment enjoying each other's company and anticipating the future their baby symbolizes. What parent doesn't hope for the best for their child, the very symbol of their love?
It's actually ironic that he's trying to emulate the pretentious snobby attitude film critics have towards the prequels because both the prequels and the originals are definitely NOT derived from a film tradition that held up well to that criticism. The originals were born from Lucas' love of Flash Gordon and other B-movie serials. That's why you have the transitory screen wipes that is usually mocked in film schools when used on student films as amateur but they are a visual hallmark of Star Wars. That doesn't mean that Lucas completely uses the screen wipes since he still uses traditional cuts as well but a lot of the underlying visual motifs that the originals have, the prequels have as well. To be a really effective critic though, you need to be aware of the prejudices that you hold and how that might color you. That is why you have different schools of thought even in serious art criticism, much less film criticism.
DeleteA lot of the prequel bashers decry also seem to like complaining whenever the prequels show ANOTHER link to the originals. Of course they're related. According to the internal chronology of the films, the prequels lead to the originals. What better way to link the progression of time from the Republic in its peak to its fall and then the rise of the Empire before its fall to the Rebels than through the visuals? They are also very much created by the same artist, George Lucas, and it shows in so many different little ways.
Another visual metaphor I like for the whole saga is the contrast in background noise. The settings for the prequels are almost frenetic in how much activity and motion is portrayed, which seems to be an external sign of the healthiness of the Jedi and by extension, the Force. However, as the cancer of the Sith starts to progress, you move to more and more sterile settings until it's finally overtaken by the near lifeless environs of space and the Death Star. By contrast, the originals open up in space where most signs of life are destructive. The planets shown are also definitely not as bustling as Coruscant or Naboo ever were and far more stark in nature. The entire celebration sequence is the galaxy and by extension, the Force, coming back to life with the triumph of the Jedi and the Alliance.
I don't understand when bashers complain that too many things in I-III are just like in IV-VI and then turn around and complain that I-III is nothing like IV-VI.
DeleteYeah, Return of the Jedi, especially the additions to the ending, resonate so much more when seen through the lens of I-III. I can never really view the two sets of films seperately because they compliment each other so well.
I think the problem is that a large majority of the bashers need to admit that the originals were imperfect just as the prequels are but in doing so, they would be admitting that their childhoods were and by extensions, that they, are imperfect too. I am, of course, generalizing since there are some prequel bashers whose childhood were when the prequels were released but it is arguable that their criticism of the prequels could be attributed to adolescent contrariness/rebellion in an effort to be "cool" or else contamination by the virulent fanboy culture online, which is still dominated by the opinions of a certain age demographic as older fanboys who grew up either joined the industry or else gained the time and money to devote to these hobbies (much like the progression of the comic book fandom, which used to be dominated by boys until those boys grew up and had a great deal more disposable income to spend on their boyhood hobbies). This also is only a generalization of the American geek culture, I'm pretty sure the fandom for Star Wars is not as vitriolic internationally although it is also likely not as pervasive.
DeleteReturn of the Jedi really became my favorite BECAUSE of the prequels. Without the prequels, it is simply not as emotional to have Luke help Darth Vader become Anakin again. They make Vader's and by extension, Luke's, character progression much deeper. Vader's about face is even more poignant when you know what loss he has had while Luke's victory is even more triumphant when you know how heavy the weight of the history and expectations he has fought off really is. However, this does make Leia and Han's characters shallower by contrast as Leia's character progression as a Skywalker is incomplete due to the last minute revelation that she is a Skywalker and inability to tie her into the father-son dynamic other than Vader using turning her to the Dark Side as a threat while Han never really progresses beyond the roguish love interest. They started to color in his character a little bit but Han is still the stereotypical Jerk with a Heart of Gold. I am hoping the sequel trilogy will help with deepening the character arcs for Leia and Han though.
In the meantime, I am happy with how the Saga is. Though, I have to admit that it sometimes kills me the way things end in Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi still doesn't do much to cover up the wound of seeing the general death and destruction caused by Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. So speaking as an "art is subjective" proponent, I would say the prequels succeed in telling their story since I am emotionally involved in Anakin's story.
That's been my argument. None of the movies are perfect in an objective sense, but that doesn't stop them from being perfect to us. Just recognize the difference.
DeleteI've read them numerous times over the past few years (and I encourage my readers to take a look at them too).
DeleteAnd before the announcement of VII-IX kind of threw a wrench into it, I agreed that his way of showing the saga to his kids was the perfect way, though perhaps for some slightly different reasons. First and foremost Empire needed to be before I-III to keep The Moment a secret, and Hope has to be first because the other five do too good a job at one-upping it. But by the same token, Jedi has to be last for reasons we already stated.
So, again, with VII-IX, showing the first six this way might be a little too weird, which is a damn shame because it's one of the best ways to view it thematically.
And yes, I wish I had more to reply with than just "YES", but this is what this blog is about: celebrating what we love. It's the closeted hippie in me.
This is why sometimes I wish there was a marriage between the stereotypical fanboy and fangirl culture. Being giddy and silly together with like-minded fans is fun although too much of it gets to be disturbing (I don't even want to go into the stories of fangirl extremism). Going on speculation scavenger hunts of what ifs, how does this work, and nitpicking can often devolve into the internet hate machine turning on what you used to love and hold dear. Right now, I think the Star Wars fandom is definitely too far pointed to the latter extreme. Granted, it might not be an accurate picture but the most vocal fans seem to be of this ilk. It is debatable though at this point in my mind if they can be considered fans if their only fannish activities is to tear down something they're supposedly a fan of. It also makes voiceless casual fans of Star Wars, those who liked the movies but weren't moved to devote the amount of time and energy that some prequel bashers have.
DeleteAnyway, about the sequel trilogies, I am hoping that the fact that they are based on Lucas' outlines and that he is still there as a creative consultant mean that his presence and artistic stamp will be all over them to make the existing Saga a cohesive trilogy of trilogies. I'm pretty sure Disney will take the same tack they did with Pixar and Marvel although this does leave up in the air whether Lucas will continue fiddling around with the original trilogies. Frankly, I am okay with most of the edits that he did because I can understand the reasoning behind them. I do wish that more time was spent on making the edits seem less tacked on in the case of certain SFX improvements so I'm hoping Lucas will still be able to work on them even after the Disney sale as I believe they still belong to Fox (I'm not certain of the details of this though).
Don't get me started on the Expanded Universe though. I can get how EU fans get protective to the point where they're dismissive of the films but I view the EU as fodder for fanboy fantasies for those who love the whose phallic symbol is bigger showdown/debates/arguments. It might have something to do with identity though since some fans are so caught up in how they WANT to be a Jedi or Sith that this is the only way they can do so. The way that playing a video game character can be immersive doesn't really help with keeping the lines of fantasy and reality separate, increasing the amount of frustration when one's fantasies aren't realized and also likely feeds into the negative feedback loop prequel-bashers have going on. Frankly, I think the SW EU is currently a storytelling mess-- akin to the various retcons and various continuities the Marvel and DC comic universe have. I would prefer that with Disney's takeover that there is a separate continuity for the Star Wars films akin to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and DC Animated Universe that mine the comics for stories, names, motifs, and ideas. But I would NOT want the EU to be adapted wholesale much like I don't want the comics to be adapted wholesale because with that much material, there is a LOT of silly BS that would just look ridiculous if translated to film.
I've stated numerous times that my knowledge of the greater EU stories are limited to character bio blurbs on Wookieepedia, but those always seemed to depressing and counter to what the movies were about. Again, I fault nobody for finding value in them, I'm just personally glad George doesn't consider them canon.
DeleteI just find it strange that Star Wars is about the only franchise I can think of that gives any legitimacy to what is essentially professionally published fanfic. There are some works that do have his collaboration like the Clone Wars TV series but I don't view it as a straight creation since the genesis of most of the storylines are still from other people that Lucas approves or denies, if he is consulted with. From the sense I get of the EU, I also feel that it falls victim to the Darker & Edgier trope, which I feel runs counter to the ending message of hope that the Return of the Jedi ended on. Even Revenge of the Sith, as dark as it was, still had that sliver of hope to its undertone. So, I'm hoping the current state of the EU will not be indicative of how the Star Wars franchise will be like under Disney's helm seeing as George Lucas likely didn't do enough to rein in fanboy excess in the EU-- I refer to the example of Chewbacca's death where they apparently wanted to kill off Luke Skywalker and Lucas nixed the idea but they still wanted to kill off a fan favorite so they chose Chewbacca because he wasn't on the list of protected characters. I think that marked the beginning of the slippery slope where the trend of trying to one-up each other in subsequent publications, getting drunk on fantasies of Jedi vs Sith battles, and unfortunate implications from adding so many different authors of different viewpoints and varying levels of talent into the mix set in. Also, prequel-bashers seem to like taking them apart but don't seem to add in suggestions that are better. If most of what they wanted to see are anything like the ideas floated in the EU, I would need to take a pass because if Revenge of the Sith were just "Darth Vader being badass" like some fanboys seemed to have wanted then I would have shrugged it off as another generic sci-fi action movie a la Michael Bay's Transformers or the GI Joe movie.
DeleteHere's where I think Star Wars should take a page from other franchises-- there should be a Star Wars bible that is developed by Lucas to help guide those looking to add to the universe, especially after the gates have essentially been flung open with Lucas' retirement and Disney's buyout. There needs to be an uniformity while allowing for evolution within the franchise so Star Wars can remain Star Wars and doesn't end up looking like Star Trek or a generic sci-fi action blockbuster.
All accounts seem to indicate that VII-IX is essentially replacing post-Jedi EU.
DeleteI certainly hope so. But it's likely that in the replacement, the same backlash against the sequel trilogies will occur since people have had time to get unreasonably attached to the EU, warts and all (much like the nostalgia filter some people have for the original trilogy). So, I think when VII-IX gets released, I might end up avoiding the Star Wars portion of the internet because the fan hate and fan dumb will likely be high.
DeleteYou say that like it hasn't already. Just stick with me, ACPoV, The Heresies, and the Prequel Appreciation society. We'll keep level(-ish) heads.
DeleteI certainly will. Anyway, I'm starting to regret going with the manual inputting my name and URL route since I don't get notified by replies unless I happen to refresh this page. I might need to get a profile but it'll be under a different name.
DeleteIt doesn't give you a subscribe option? Odd, but I'm fairly new to this myself. In any case, glad to have you aboard!
DeleteYeah, I went with the Name/URL route of signing my comments since the social media profiles that I have are for my personal use only and not for fandom use and I didn't simply want to be an anonymous user. (I'm a bit weird with my social media profiles in that anything remotely linked to my personal accounts, I prefer for my family and friends but anything else for the general public, I prefer a persona. I believe it has to do with some close calls with cyberstalking as a teenager.) I'll continue with this arrangement until I decide what to do with the profile issue.
DeleteYeek. Well, hope you figure it out easily enough.
DeleteI did see that this Flynn guy seems to rehash the same "art is objective" line of argument in your other Star Wars related comment threads and I got tired of that really fast. Seriously, I don't even know how these people continue being fans. But I'll definitely be checking back in to keep my head clear of all the hate. Sometimes, I run across Star War fanboy debates in the strangest corners of the internet and just seeing the dumb BS that they pull can overwhelm my usual attitude of that's just people being silly. Just reading some of the stuff that gets pulled in EU, OMFG. So, I'll certainly need that grounding when I sense that I'm getting contaminated by the fanboy hate.
DeleteYeah, I avoid that stuff like the plague.
DeleteSo tell any decently Saga-minded friends about our little network too!
One note: if you're link hopping in my links, don't visit Nostalgia Critic or Spoony. They're funny enough on most things, but they're firmly on the Lucas Hate wagon (that it only happens rarely is the only reason I keep them in my list, though NC is pretty fair about opposing viewpoints when not in character).
Yeah, I did unfortunately see that once I read a few of NC's reviews. I do like that there's a little network of Star Wars Saga fan sites popping up (like a Rebel Alliance?). I think I'm going to stick with the name/URL setup for now because it's the only way I can link to the tumblr I'm currently setting up as a Star Wars blog. It most definitely will be a Star Wars Saga fansite although it likely won't be as text heavy since it's a tumblr. Once I get it setup and running, hopefully it can be a part of the network too. :)
DeleteWell, you can certainly count on my support. :-)
DeleteAnd I guess I forgot that I took Spoony off my links a while back, so that point is moot. I still follow his Counter Monkey series for D&D tips, but yeah....
Basically, for Star Wars safe zones, go to the Prequel Appreceation Society and if they link to it, it's good.
...well, I was going to defend myself, but the comment I had planned to respond to is, uh, 23 comments old now?
DeleteFrom Episode I:
ReplyDeleteObi-Wan Kenobi: I have a bad feeling about this.
Qui-Gon Jinn: I don't sense anything.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: It's not about the mission, Master. It's something... elsewhere. Elusive.
Qui-Gon Jinn: Don't center on your anxieties, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: But Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future.
Qui-Gon Jinn: But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, young Padawan.
Darth Sidious: Wipe them out all of them.
From Episode II:
Count Dooku: The Force is with us, Master Sidious
Darth Sidious: Welcome Home, Lord Tyrannus. You have done well.
Count Dooku: I have good news for you, My Lord. War has begun
Darth Sidious: Excellent. Everything is going as planned.
From Episode III:
ReplyDeleteSidious: You're fulfilling your destiny, Anakin. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the Dark Side of the Force.
Anakin: I will do whatever you ask.
Sidious: Good!
Anakin: Just help me save Padmé's life. I can't live without her.
Sidious: To cheat death is the power only one has achieved, but if we work together...I know we can discover the secret.
Anakin: I pledge myself...to your teachings...to the ways of the Sith.
Sidious: Good. Good. ... The Force is strong with you! A powerful Sith, you will become! Anakin Skywalker, you are one with the Order of the Sith Lords. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth... Vader.
Darth Vader: Thank you, my master.
Sidious: Rise.
Darth Sidious: Because the Council did not trust you, my young apprentice, I believe you are the only Jedi with no knowledge of this plot. When the Jedi learn what has transpired here, they will kill us...along with all the senators.
Darth Vader: I agree. The Council's next move will be against the Senate.
Sidious: Every single Jedi, including your friend, Obi-Wan Kenobi, is now an enemy of the Republic.
Vader: I understand, Master.
Sidious: We must move quickly. The Jedi are relentless. If they are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end. First, I want you to go to the Jedi Temple. We will catch them off balance. Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the Dark Side to save Padmé.
Vader: What about the other Jedi spread across the galaxy?
Sidious: Their betrayal will be dealt with. After you have killed all the Jedi in the Temple, go to the Mustafar system. Wipe out Viceroy Gunray and the other Separatist leaders. Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy! And...we shall have...peace.
Palpatine: The war is over. The Separatists have been eliminated. And the Jedi rebellion has been foiled. We stand of the threshold of a new beginning.
Bail Organa: What's happened?
Padmé Amidala: The Chancellor has been elaborating on a plot by the Jedi to overthrow the Senate.
Palpatine: The remaining Jedi will be hunted down and defeated! Any collaborators will suffer the same fate! These have been trying times, but we have passed the test. The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed. But, I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger! In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the First Galactic Empire...for a safe and secure society!
Padmé: So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause.
Forgot "wipe them out" and "liberty dies." I feel stupid.
DeleteObi-Wan Kenobi: I've recalibrated the code, warning all surviving Jedi to stay away.
ReplyDeleteYoda: For the clones, to discover the recalibration, a long time, it will take. And to change it back, longer, still.
Obi-Wan: Wait, Master. There is something I must know. [inspects a security hologram]
Yoda: You realize, of course, that if into the security recordings, you go, only pain, will you find.
Obi-Wan: I must know the truth, Master. [watches hologram of Anakin/Vader killing Jedi younglings and pledging allegiance to Palpatine; Horrified] It can't be. It can't be!
Palpatine: [On hologram] You have done well, my new apprentice. Your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you. Now, Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire.
Obi-Wan: I can't watch anymore.
Yoda: Destroy the Sith, we must.
Obi-Wan: Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin.
Yoda: To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not.
Obi-Wan: But Anakin...he is like my brother. I cannot do it.
Yoda: Twisted by the dark side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone, he is, consumed by Darth Vader.
Obi-Wan: I do not know where the Emperor has sent him. I don't know where to look.
Yoda: Use your feelings, Obi-Wan, and find him, you will. Pay the Emperor a visit, I must.
Yoda: Hmm... Hidden, safe, the children must be kept.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: We must take them to a place where the Sith will not sense their presence.
Yoda: Hmm... Split up, they should be.
Senator Bail Organa: My wife and I will take the girl. We've always talked about adopting a baby girl. She will be loved with us.
Obi-Wan: And what of the boy?
Yoda: To Tatooine. To his family, send him.
Obi-Wan: I will take the child and watch over him.
Yoda: Until the time is right, disappear we will. Master Kenobi, wait a moment. In your solitude on Tatooine, training I have for you.
Obi-Wan: Training?
Yoda: An old friend has learned the path to immortality. One who has returned from the netherworld of the Force... Your old master.
Obi-Wan: Qui-Gon?!
Yoda: How to commune with him, I will teach you.
Those are great scenes, but I was talking more about obscure reference fodder, like "I am your father" or "these aren't the droids you're looking for." If we're talking memorable scenes you may as well transcript the entire movies.
DeleteThese are great. But for some reason, I didn't need "memorable lines" to make the PT special for me. The trilogy's story and morally ambiguous characters made it special for me.
ReplyDeleteNo, but it's icing on the cake, isn't it?
Delete